London, 5 April 1963
1590. Confidential
I have now had conversations with Macmillan (over lunch), Butler2 (briefly), Sandys3, Heath4, Lansdowne, Thomas, Fisher5, Caccia6 and Gamer.7
Malaysia
I have stressed the need, not merely for continued British firmness and resolve to complete Malaysia by August 31, but for continued British military presence in area—and a clear indication that they intend to maintain that presence in significant strength. I have been told that they will do so. I have said that I would expect such firmness to restrain Indonesian inclinations to adventure but that to ensure stable relations between Indonesia and Malaysia for the future, a line of retreat must be left for Sukarno. This could—and should be provided by the gestures by Tunku which I have already indicated—and which I have discussed here. I find that they accept the idea of the talks though think—as indeed I do—that the Indonesians will seek to misuse them; but they agree with my own approach and that the Tunku should be able to make the necessary gestures. They agree that it would be of advantage for me to see Tunku and Sukarno on my way home. I am minded to do so, if for no other reason, to take the maximum teps possible to see that the talks are confined as proposed and that they succeed in at least reducing hostility to Malaysia. Of course the risks of failure are quite high but I think the attempt worthwhile.8 I have had no determined approaches on increased defence activity on our part, though Sandys in discussing their own position seemed to be laying the ground for some such approach. However he did not reach that point. Caccia did refer to the percentage of G.N.P. devoted to defence and Gamer also hinted that increased Australian effort would be welcome; but I deflected any direct assault by pointing out that to compare the effort of a fully developed economy with an economy in our developing stage was to compare the uncomparable. And I developed this in detail to the point that they did not pursue the question further.
[ matter omitted ]
[NAA: A] 838, 3034/10/1 part 13]
1 See footnote 3, Document 60.
2 Richard A. (‘Rab’) Butler, UK Deputy Prime Minister and First Secretary of State.
3 Duncan Sandys, Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and for the Colonies.
4 Edward Heath, Lord Privy Seal, with Foreign Office responsibilities.
5 Nigel Fisher, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies
6 Sir Harold Caccia, Permanent Under-Secretary of State, Foreign Office
7 Sir Saville Gamer, Permanent Under-Secretary of State, CRO.
8 Barwick held talks with the Tunku and Lee Kuan Yew on his return journey. His visit to Jakarta for talks with Sukarno did not go ahead because the Chairman of the People’s Republic of China, Liu Shao-Shi, and Foreign Minister, Marshal Chen-Yi, were making an eight-day state visit to Indonesia at the time, 12–20 April.